Grace granted this interview to Don McLean, Editor of Catholic,
an Australian publication. There is much in it to give us encouragement.
Archbishop Lefebvre faces difficult decisions in the near future,
some alluded to here. and in this difficult time he must be supported
by our prayers. Our thanks to Mr. McLean for permission to reprint
this interview for our readers.
Can you tell us something of your visit to Colombia so soon after
the tragic earthquake?
A. We learned
of the disaster while we were in the West Indies. Everybody in
Colombia was very shocked to learn of a town of 20,000 people
disappearing. There was great disquiet that the volcano might
erupt again. As far as the Church is concerned, it seems that
not only in Colombia, but also in the entire continent of South
America, the Catholic tradition will have a greater future among
ordinary people rather than among an intellectual elite who understand
the principle behind the present reform in the Church. The people
and their spiritual needs are more and more being abandoned by
their priests, and the people are turning to priests who will
provide them with the Sacraments and the devotions such as they
have always known and require.
You have just conferred the Sacrament of Holy Orders at the Society’s
seminary at La Reja, Argentina for the first time. Eight more priests
for the Society, and Bishop de Castro Mayer was present?
A. The presence
of Bishop de Castro Mayer was a very great event for the Society.
This was the first time that I assisted at Ordinations in one
of our seminaries conferred by another bishop. It was a great
joy for all and a great satisfaction for Bishop de Castro Mayer.
Does he still ordain priests for the Diocese of Campos and other
A. His Lordship,
Bishop de Castro Mayer conferred the Tonsure and the Minor Orders
on a certain number of seminarians at the Seminary at La Reja.
This day, December 1, 1985, was a memorable one at the seminary.
I do not
know if he will ordain other seminarians at other places.
There are only two bishops who speak out against Modernism. Arc
there others who support you?
A. Many other
bishops among those nominated before Vatican II are with us in
their heart, but they do not dare to express this publicly.
The seminary has just finished an extensive building program. What
was your impression of it compared to the other three seminaries
of the Society?
A. The seminary
at La Reja has the great advantage of being constructed according
to a total plan. There were no existing buildings, and therefore
we were able to construct the seminary exactly as we liked. 1t
is very favorable for the formation of the seminarians and for
the development of their piety and recollection.
We have heard that you have ordained more priests this year than
any other bishop. Is that so?
A. I ordained
thirty-nine priests last year. This is the greatest number which
has ever been ordained by me in a given year. Henceforth the average
number will be about forty every year. I do not know if I will
ordain more priests this year than any other bishop.
You ordain priests for other communities?
A. Yes, for
communities which, in normal times, would be recognized by the
Dioceses and the Holy See.
You had a chance to confer with Bishop de Castro Mayer at the seminary?
We spent several days together, and so we were able to speak about
the state of the Church today. We were able to speak of the various
problems which have developed, and will develop after the Synod.
Did you speak of the Episcopal Manifesto sent to Rome after your
last visit to South America in November 1983?
A. We spoke
of the recent letter which we sent to the Pope rather than the
Manifesto of 1983. This letter is a grave warning to the Pope,
and a further appeal to him to return to Tradition, and to cease
spreading the errors of the Second Vatican Council.
Has there been any reaction to that letter, or the Manifesto?
A. Not yet.
Last May, in Canada, you spoke of "pertinacity in error." Could
you expand upon what you mean?
A. It is
because of' this pertinacity that we sent our recent letter to
the Pope. If he continues to promote the reforms in the Church,
which are becoming more and more grave, then he can certainly
be described as pertinacious. Soon, perhaps, Bishop de Castro
Mayer and I will produce another document which will outline the
gravity of the situation.
You had difficulties with Pope Paul VI. Do you have the same difficulties
with Pope John Paul II?
A. Pope Paul
Vl and Pope John Paul II are both Liberal and Modernist, favorable
to the Conciliar Revolution. We have the same reasons to mistrust
John Paul II as Paul VI. In practice they have adopted all the
consequences of a false principle which may be expressed thus:
"All religions are means of salvation." Therefore the Church is
no longer the unique means of salvation. This is to establish
the Revolution in the Church and by the Church. We refuse this
change and this Revolution.
You said in an interview in Paris in December 1983 that Pope John
Paul II was a Pope who was not doing his duty, with particular reference
to his not condemning Communism. Do you still hold that position?
A. In consequence
of a fundamental change of principle, it is logical that Pope
John Paul II does not publicly condemn Communism, which is a form
of atheistic conviction.
In the same interview in 1983, you did trot rule out the possibility
of consecrating a bishop. But you said that "it would be in circumstances
more tragic than today." Would you comment?
I remain in the same position, but the circumstances have become
more serious during the last six months.
Cardinal Ratzingcr recently said: "I sec no future for a position
that, out of principle, stubbornly renounces Vatican II." Do you
have a comment on that?
On page 21 of his book (English edition). Cardinal Ratzinger says:
"Clearly everything possible must be done to prevent Archbishop Lefebvre’s
movement from giving rise to a schism peculiar to it that would come
into whenever Msgr. Lefebvre should decide to consecrate a bishop
which, thank God, in the hope of reconciliation, he has not yet done."
Could you comment on this statement?
A. I could
equally ask Cardinal Ratzinger if he sees a future in the present
progressive policies in the Church. Not only is there no future
in them, but according to his book The Ratzinger Report,
there would seem to be total ruin. That is not the case with our
Society of St. Plus X.
are in fact the words of Cardinal Ratzinger. In our last letter
we warned the Pope that we would perhaps consecrate a bishop if
the diffusion of error continues as before, and the reform continues
in the same manner.
Rome these days, seems to be over-run with Modernists. Do you have
any real friends there?
A. They who
might be our friends, and who recognize the damage which Modernism
is causing to the Church, have not had the courage to uphold it,
and so it is possible to say that Rome is almost completely occupied
by the Modernists. All that is done there is done according to
Professor van der Ploeg, in an article in the Dutch magazine, Katholiecke
Stemmen for October 1985, speaking of Fr. Hans Küng, decries the
fact that: "Küng has not been suspended from his priestly ,functions
as was, for example, Archbishop Lefebvre who adheres to the Faith
that the Church has always confessed." Would you comment on that?
A. The case
of Hans Küng is only a particular incident. Entire Episcopal Conferences
should be suspended if they do not retract their writings. For
example, a recent document issued by the German Episcopal Conference
no longer makes a clear distinction between Catholics and Protestants
in mixed marriages.
Would you comment on the Church in France today?
A. The great
majority of the bishops in France are apostate, and have abandoned
the Catholic Faith to become Modernist. Their new catechism is
evident proof of this.
is in France, an extraordinary resistance on the part of many
priests, the faithful, and very many young Catholics. This is
a great hope. The Catholic Church survives and is organizing itself
against the persecution of the Conciliar Revolution.
There are now five members of the Sisters of St. Pius X from Australia,
including Sister Mary Michael who joined soon after your first visit
to Australia in 1972. Can you tell us when a foundation of the Sisters
might be established here?
A. This decision
depends upon the Mother General of the Sisters, but I feel sure
that it is her intention to found a community here quite soon.
What do you say to people who claim that the Society of St. Pius
X will die out?
A. God is
the Master of all things, and He could make it come about that
our Society should disappear. However, as the Church cannot disappear,
then we are an important element in the continuity of the Church.
I think that Providence will continue to support us, as It has
done up to the present.
Last April, Your Grace, the Archbishop of Melbourne, Sir Francis
Little, welcomed Dr. Robert Runcie, head of the Anglican Church
in England, as a brother bishop into St. Patrick’s Cathedral here
in Melbourne. Could you explain to our readers why this was wrong?
A. All of
these ceremonies, whether performed by the Pope or other bishops,
result in religious indifferentism. In other words, they give
the impression that all religions are good, that there is no distinction
between the Catholic Church and other religions. The essential
distinction between true and false religion is therefore lost,
with the result that heresy is spread throughout the world. This
heresy being that the Catholic Church is no longer the one true
Church founded by Jesus Christ.
Pope John Paul II recently created twenty-eight new cardinals. There
were from Australians among them. We maintain that there were none
worthy. Could you comment?
that many new cardinals are unworthy of their designation, any
from Australia would only have added to that. In effect, the choice
of cardinals is now made by reason of their total adhesion to
the Conciliar Revolution, apart from a few rare exceptions.
Do you have a message for Australia’s bishops?
what have you done with your diocese, with your seminary, and
your convents, with your schools, and with your Faith? The ruins
are before you, and you persist in continuing the destruction
of our holy religion.
you will soon have to render an account of your charge.
rationem villicationis tuae," says Our Lord. Come back to
the Church of before the Council, and all will flourish again.
Grace, thank you most sincerely. May the remainder of your visit
be rewarding, and may our Immaculate Mother ensure your safe return
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